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Poster: tree-ap Date: Jun 25, 2007 10:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: what if LIVE DEAD was different?

Just sitting here listening to 12/30/69 @ The Boston Tea Party & TIFTOO is playing. I know that for many of us LIVE DEAD was the album that flipped the switch in our brains & after hearing it is when we "got it". Now, imagine that instead of DS>SS>11 etc, it was TIFTOO>New Potato>Caution, Dupree's>Doin That Rag on the album? I for one am not entirely sure I'd still be listening to them. I didn't care for the intensity of TOO at first---it took a couple of years until I was seeking out tapes with it. Same with NPC & Caution. While Dark Star can be every bit as scary & intense as TOO, it's just different. Dark Star remains to this day my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE Grateful Dead song. And, I've said before that I've been hearing the GD almost all of my life, & not just the handful of "hits" on the radio, as I have family that saw shows in the 70's. I heard my 1st bootleg almost a full 2 years before seeing a show, and had Live Dead, Europe '72, American Beauty, Workingman's Dead & Blues For Allah before actually seeing a show. It was after a friend had played me the bootleg he brought back from boarding school (I do not recall what year/show it was) & saying "you'll like the jammy stuff on this" I bought Live Dead, had what had to have been just the right amount of THC filling the synapses, put it on late @ night after mom & dad went to bed, and sat in front of my 4ft tall Fisher speakers so the sound was coming at me in the correct proportions, and heard the lead-into DS did I say to myself, "I get it now!!!"

I don't know...it's just a thought.

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Jun 25, 2007 11:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: what if LIVE DEAD was different?

They could not have chosen better than what they did. Remember--they were aiming for a live record. And the DS--St. S.--Eleven--Lovelight IS the quintessential dead. Plus the Death Don't Have No Mercy--the alternate ending!

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Poster: tree-ap Date: Jun 25, 2007 1:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: what if LIVE DEAD was different?

Yea, but dontcha think it's "quintessential" only because that's what was released & it's what you know? Look at the set lists of the day, and you'll see that TIFTOO, NPC, Dupree's, Aligator>Caution, and every other song from the time frame they were making the 16 track recordings were all played just as often as DS, SS, 11, DDHNM, & Lovelight. And you can find versions of all of those songs that were every bit as good as what was released on LIVE DEAD---just "good" in a different way.

Remember the movie with Gweneth Paltrow called Sliding Doors? She made it onto the train & found her man w/another woman. In the other version she missed the train by a second & never found out about the other woman. Same thing here bascially---LIVE DEAD as it was, or with different songs? Would you still have enjoyed it as much initially? Maybe not having been driven to seek out anything additional by them?

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Jun 26, 2007 10:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: what if LIVE DEAD was different?

Both. Having heard so many other 69 versions of the suite, I would still maintain that this is as good as any of them. Better is in the ear of the beholder, and there my listening bias comes in. I snagged that record the day it came out and played it hundreds of times. So, yes, used to it.

But, remember, too: I heard a dozen versions of the suite, so it would be just as easy to pick something I've been to--a different sort of bias. ANd, I was prepared for LIVE/DEAD, having heard the suite several times.

They had a dozen or so shows to pick from, and they were clever enough to put two of them together to get the four songs. At any rate, a great era, and a lot of great shows.

To answer the original question: any of these shows would have done it for me.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 25, 2007 5:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: what if LIVE DEAD was different?

Good post!

My take is that the 'alternate suite' of CE/OO/CE/NPC...etc is equally compelling, though I agree with you at first pass that DS/SS/11/DDHNM surpasses...

I am confident (?) that is was entirely a marketing issue: the alt suite was included on Anthem, and Live Dead needed the others...just my thought. My readings of the boys implied to me that they generally worked on these two song suites with the aim toward Live Dead, but went with the other selection, eliminating one of the suites, for marketing reasons...

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Jun 27, 2007 7:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: what if LIVE DEAD was different?

I agree--though the DS suite was the showpiece. I think that they worked on this one harder with the aim of making it the first choice. Can you imagine what L.D. would have been if they had c.d.s back then? The suite does clock in at 55 minutes, so there would be 25 left. I'll bet they would at least left the Mountains of the Moon that segued into that D.S. alone--maybe they would have added another Pig song?

Or maybe it's already damn near perfect?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 27, 2007 7:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: what if LIVE DEAD was different?

Absolutely would've loved it if they had found the time for MtnMoon segue...that would have been worth dropping a bit of FBack or...or...well, tough, but I would have gone for it in a heartbeat.

And, I do think you are right about techno developments: CD format would have done so much for the show presentation because as it is, FBack and DDHNM seem disconnected. For those that hadn't seen them in the 60s, the suite was not as obvious a structure as it would have been (except of course for DS/SS/11).

But these are nit picking points on a great accomplishment.

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Poster: dcc292 Date: Jun 25, 2007 12:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: what if LIVE DEAD was different?

Lucky for us they had already released The Other One! But really, they knew what they were on to with Dark Star and the rest of that medley. That's why they rehearsed it and played it so often. They were well aware that Dark Star was like nothing else out there in the world and if they could get a good one recorded well it would make a fantastic record.

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Poster: Lou Davenport Date: Jun 25, 2007 1:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: what if LIVE DEAD was different?

Given TFTV, it's interesting to consider how things would have been different if that recording hadn't been screwed up by the engineers and had appeared as the live album of that era, rather than the Fillmore run from a few months later.

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Poster: tree-ap Date: Jun 25, 2007 1:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: what if LIVE DEAD was different?

exactly my point...

I HATE "what if" sometimes though. Alright, I'm done thinking about it---I'm going to go & find myself a Good Lovin' from Europe '72 & rock!!!

Anyone else, please feel free to comment still.

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Poster: JamminJerome Date: Jun 25, 2007 1:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: what if LIVE DEAD was different?

Live/Dead was also my intro to the Dead. Not in 1969, or 1979, but 1999. I found it in the used record store and was intrigued because I had known many people my age who were getting into the Dead at this time. Figuring a record would be a cheaper investment than a CD (I was only 15, and basically had no income). Saint Stephen had me hooked (actually, I heard it once or twice on the radio before), and then the 11 melted my face. Later on I would appreciate Dark Star more and more, but it wasn't instant.

IF it had been TOO>New potato caboose>alligator or something like that...I probably still would have liked them, but it might have taken me longer to get completely hooked. Good songs...but for me SS>11 and Dark Star have been essential in a way that those other songs are not. But as it's been said, that could be because it's what I was introduced to first. Could be.